What do you think we need to change or do, so that we can get more participation in the tournaments in Atlanta? - RealBowlers2024-03-28T23:38:17Zhttp://realbowlers.ning.com/forum/topics/what-do-you-think-we-need-to-change-or-do-so-that-we-can-get-more?commentId=2153999%3AComment%3A92143&xg_source=activity&feed=yes&xn_auth=noOne main reason it's hard to…tag:realbowlers.ning.com,2012-06-13:2153999:Comment:923822012-06-13T14:58:55.288ZAkil Razzakhttp://realbowlers.ning.com/profile/AkilRazzak
<p>One main reason it's hard to do that Randall is Sandbagging. I know too many Sandbaggers and they will ruin your tournaments. Also I would suggest that if you are running a handicapped tournament you should use a person "Composite Average". Because we bowl alot of different houses and leages and shouldn't be penalized for a center putting out gravy every week. Also put out a fair pattern. I will say even though I haven't shot very big numbers a Bowling 200's tournaments but I will say I…</p>
<p>One main reason it's hard to do that Randall is Sandbagging. I know too many Sandbaggers and they will ruin your tournaments. Also I would suggest that if you are running a handicapped tournament you should use a person "Composite Average". Because we bowl alot of different houses and leages and shouldn't be penalized for a center putting out gravy every week. Also put out a fair pattern. I will say even though I haven't shot very big numbers a Bowling 200's tournaments but I will say I usually enjoy the pattern because If you throw it great you will shoot something. There is an outcry to run decent tournaments in this area and I believe in supporting the tournaments that are trying their best to run fair tournaments.<br/><br/><cite>Randall Harville said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://realbowlers.ning.com/forum/topic/show?id=2153999%3ATopic%3A92280&xgs=1&xg_source=msg_share_topic&page=3#2153999Comment92160"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Have tournaments with a handicap system at 100% of a particular average (220 or 230). Real scratch bowlers (the site is Real Bowlers) will come but, tournaments need to reach out to the "middle of the road" bowlers. The higher the percentage of handicap will favor the "middle of the road or handicap" bowlers. This will not be popular with high end scratch bowlers but, if you're looking for more participation, try it. That's my opinion.</p>
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</blockquote> Have tournaments with a handi…tag:realbowlers.ning.com,2012-06-12:2153999:Comment:921602012-06-12T21:42:07.964ZRandall Harvillehttp://realbowlers.ning.com/profile/randallharville
<p>Have tournaments with a handicap system at 100% of a particular average (220 or 230). Real scratch bowlers (the site is Real Bowlers) will come but, tournaments need to reach out to the "middle of the road" bowlers. The higher the percentage of handicap will favor the "middle of the road or handicap" bowlers. This will not be popular with high end scratch bowlers but, if you're looking for more participation, try it. That's my opinion.</p>
<p>Have tournaments with a handicap system at 100% of a particular average (220 or 230). Real scratch bowlers (the site is Real Bowlers) will come but, tournaments need to reach out to the "middle of the road" bowlers. The higher the percentage of handicap will favor the "middle of the road or handicap" bowlers. This will not be popular with high end scratch bowlers but, if you're looking for more participation, try it. That's my opinion.</p> 220 avg is scratch. Get a low…tag:realbowlers.ning.com,2012-06-12:2153999:Comment:921562012-06-12T04:16:37.764ZBernard Smithhttp://realbowlers.ning.com/profile/BernardSmith
<p>220 avg is scratch. Get a lower average or hit the pro tour. Just keep it real handicapping is bowlers averaging under 190. Over 190 need a scratch bowling series tournament. </p>
<p>220 avg is scratch. Get a lower average or hit the pro tour. Just keep it real handicapping is bowlers averaging under 190. Over 190 need a scratch bowling series tournament. </p> Theo, I did go back and look…tag:realbowlers.ning.com,2012-06-11:2153999:Comment:922442012-06-11T21:35:13.119ZChasehttp://realbowlers.ning.com/profile/Cirocco
<p>Theo, I did go back and look and can see that you have been doing a Thanksgiving Tournament right at Thanksgiving time; Nov 24-27 in 2011... and in 2010, Nov. 26-28. I do rememeber there is normally a tourney right around Thanksgiving... and that is really why I didnt want to be aroud that last weekend. But I definitely (honestly) didnt rememeber that it was you and Tim (or that anything would be happening in those 1st 3 weekeneds)...except a <em>possible</em> tournament in…</p>
<p>Theo, I did go back and look and can see that you have been doing a Thanksgiving Tournament right at Thanksgiving time; Nov 24-27 in 2011... and in 2010, Nov. 26-28. I do rememeber there is normally a tourney right around Thanksgiving... and that is really why I didnt want to be aroud that last weekend. But I definitely (honestly) didnt rememeber that it was you and Tim (or that anything would be happening in those 1st 3 weekeneds)...except a <em>possible</em> tournament in Snellville.</p>
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<p>Again, I apologize. Let's talk Thursday Night.</p> Well, both the May and Novemb…tag:realbowlers.ning.com,2012-06-11:2153999:Comment:921552012-06-11T14:35:59.353ZChasehttp://realbowlers.ning.com/profile/Cirocco
<p>Well, both the May and November tournament adds were new ideas that came up right after the Feb tournament because so many people kept asking us to not make them wait another yr before we did it again.... saying we dont do enough tournaments. And we learned the "hard way" to NOT try and do tournaments in August because I have lost money each time. Although, I am planning a 2 day hdcp singles in August as a "tester" to see what happens. Theo, I honestly didnt realize the Thanksgiving…</p>
<p>Well, both the May and November tournament adds were new ideas that came up right after the Feb tournament because so many people kept asking us to not make them wait another yr before we did it again.... saying we dont do enough tournaments. And we learned the "hard way" to NOT try and do tournaments in August because I have lost money each time. Although, I am planning a 2 day hdcp singles in August as a "tester" to see what happens. Theo, I honestly didnt realize the Thanksgiving Doubles thing with RBT. ( I apologize that I didnt call you first)<br/><br/><cite>Theo McNair said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://realbowlers.ning.com/forum/topics/what-do-you-think-we-need-to-change-or-do-so-that-we-can-get-more?xg_source=activity&id=2153999%3ATopic%3A92280&page=2#2153999Comment92240"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Like I mentioned earlier, we have our annual Thanksgiving Handicap Doubles where we will try the no cap. Chase when did you start doing November?? We were going to expand to two weekends but we do not like overlapping with other tournaments. November is usually a quite month.</p>
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</blockquote> This is truly amusing to say…tag:realbowlers.ning.com,2012-06-11:2153999:Comment:922412012-06-11T12:17:01.480ZF.O.Xhttp://realbowlers.ning.com/profile/FOX
This is truly amusing to say the least.<br></br>
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I can understand the frustration of having a very high average and not having someone to bowl with in doubles.<br></br>
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I can also understand the reasoning behind the cap scenario. Yet no one talks about the variables in the equation.<br></br>
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Scenario #1. Let's say for arguement sake, you have MoneyMaker (Greg Black) bowl with the Iceman (Isom Hawes) in a doubles NO CAP tournamnent. Not to say that I wouldn't bowl, but let's look at the…
This is truly amusing to say the least.<br/>
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I can understand the frustration of having a very high average and not having someone to bowl with in doubles.<br/>
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I can also understand the reasoning behind the cap scenario. Yet no one talks about the variables in the equation.<br/>
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Scenario #1. Let's say for arguement sake, you have MoneyMaker (Greg Black) bowl with the Iceman (Isom Hawes) in a doubles NO CAP tournamnent. Not to say that I wouldn't bowl, but let's look at the impression left here. First off, you have two top rank bowlers bowling together. They basically massacare most of the league bowlers and brackets at a conservative 90% of the time. You don't think if the masses KNOW that these two are bowling together, what are their chances of winning? Half of them are walking in the tournament thinking they can't beat them already.<br/>
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Scenario #2. Let's take what is the status quo at the moment. The cap is in place. The higher average bowlers have to bowl with someone they "fit" with. This is a bit much for the higher average bowler because they now have to basically bowl with a beginner. Spares are not going to be a premium per se' with the type of average the handicap bowler is carrying to match up with the scratch bowler. This is going to make competing difficult or almost impossible. Yet, anything is doable if you work at it.<br/>
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Now, the REAL problem.<br/>
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IF you let the no cap rule come into effect, you let the super powers team up and the scores have the "possibility" of getting very high.<br/>
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IF you leave things as they are, the higher average bowlers feel that it's unfair to them to be penalized for having a high average.<br/>
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Yet , what is the determing factor in all of this? I keep saying it over and over again. The lane condition in which you are bowling on. Yet, here it's the funniest thing to see.<br/>
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IF you let the super powers bowl together with no cap, I truly doubt you'll get any participation around here because of the MENTALITY of the "scorers" not "bowlers" here. To add insult to injury, If the doubles scores start to climb too high, most will feel that will be unreachable beacause of the caliber of bowlers that you now have allowed to team up, when they are "not" that same caliber bowler.<br/>
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The opposite end of the spectrum, if the super powers bowl together and the scores are relatively "low" the "mentality" will be the shot is too difficult to compete. Throw this in, another variable which makes it tough to run tournaments here.<br/>
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Very few people here like to compete if the scores are low. The "mentality" here is, if the scores are low it has to be too tough. If the scores are high, it's too easy and I can't keep up with the higher average bowlers. This "mentality" carries over into participation of the tournament.<br/>
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Tournaments now are SO ENTRY SENSITIVE, that you can't even throw a decent one with decent participation. IF ANYONE THINKS THAT SOMEONE IS GOING TO HOST A TOURNAMENT TO GIVE AWAY THEIR MONEY ON A HOUSE SHOT, YOU'RE FOOLING YOURSELF. Yet, the tournaments CAN'T make the shot too difficult because here, the entries go down if word gets out that the shot is too hard. Make the shot too easy, the scores go through the roof and then the "mentality" is that number is to high to hit. YOU'RE DAMNED IF YOU DO, DAMNED IF YOU DON'T.<br/>
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Here, most want to say they shot 250, 260, 270. Did they win the money though? I'd rather face the best bowlers on something tough, where I can squeak out a chance of beating them than to bowl on some cake and ice cream house shot that they've seen a MILLION times and have mastered hitting it.<br/>
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Everyone starts out learning to bowl on the house shot, and open play shot. It doesn't mean to stay on it forever. When you started bowling you might have had and entry level ball. As you got better you moved up in equipment to something stronger, yet upgraded your equipment but not the level of competition or the conditions you bowl on?<br/>
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Where's the challenge? Oh I forgot, you're too busy trying to shoot that next 280 to lose and go home broke again.<br/>
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Tournament directors , league directors, and bowling alley owners, make the lane conditions fair. Stop knuckling under to the cry babies and making the shots "softer"/"easier". Make it fair to "every style" bowler, give EVERYONE a chance to compete. If everyone has a chance to compete, they will. If you feel you have no chance to compete, then participation will continue to go down.<br/>
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Some of us will have to tighten up our games if we are going to compete/bowl. Now, if you want to "score", just leave everything the way it is.<br/>
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Nuff said.... Like I mentioned earlier, we…tag:realbowlers.ning.com,2012-06-11:2153999:Comment:922402012-06-11T07:53:13.398ZTheo McNairhttp://realbowlers.ning.com/profile/TheoMcNair
<p>Like I mentioned earlier, we have our annual Thanksgiving Handicap Doubles where we will try the no cap. Chase when did you start doing November?? We were going to expand to two weekends but we do not like overlapping with other tournaments. November is usually a quite month.</p>
<p>Like I mentioned earlier, we have our annual Thanksgiving Handicap Doubles where we will try the no cap. Chase when did you start doing November?? We were going to expand to two weekends but we do not like overlapping with other tournaments. November is usually a quite month.</p> I have a hdcp doubles tournam…tag:realbowlers.ning.com,2012-06-11:2153999:Comment:922392012-06-11T01:54:38.845ZChasehttp://realbowlers.ning.com/profile/Cirocco
<p>I have a hdcp doubles tournament in November that will pay $4,000.00 for 1st, and $2,000 for 2nd (guaranteed)... and I am thinking of removing the cap. Stay tuned. I have had very good participation with the cap....so I hate to start playing with a formula that has been working. I will need to go and seek counsel from a few of the people who have been doing tournaments for years to get some sound advice....and also see how some of the other bowlers feel too. Our tournaments are mainly…</p>
<p>I have a hdcp doubles tournament in November that will pay $4,000.00 for 1st, and $2,000 for 2nd (guaranteed)... and I am thinking of removing the cap. Stay tuned. I have had very good participation with the cap....so I hate to start playing with a formula that has been working. I will need to go and seek counsel from a few of the people who have been doing tournaments for years to get some sound advice....and also see how some of the other bowlers feel too. Our tournaments are mainly hdcp bowlers... not scratch. </p> There are a couple of differe…tag:realbowlers.ning.com,2012-06-10:2153999:Comment:921512012-06-10T03:36:29.774ZRandy Russellhttp://realbowlers.ning.com/profile/RandyRussell
<p>There are a couple of different things working against tournament directors now...I think it all comes down in the end to the lack of bowlers to pull from. If you run a tournament like an RBT with a higher entry fee (which for the record are the best run tournaments in the Southeast for scratch bowlers), you lose some entries because a lot of bowlers don't want to put up the larger entry fee for $1500 or so for first...and then as Daphne said only have the top 4 or so really making any…</p>
<p>There are a couple of different things working against tournament directors now...I think it all comes down in the end to the lack of bowlers to pull from. If you run a tournament like an RBT with a higher entry fee (which for the record are the best run tournaments in the Southeast for scratch bowlers), you lose some entries because a lot of bowlers don't want to put up the larger entry fee for $1500 or so for first...and then as Daphne said only have the top 4 or so really making any money. I don't mean this as there is anything wrong with the Theo and Tim run tournaments, but tough to make large payouts when the participation seems to be slowly declining. I know me personally I don't really get to bowl that much anymore because of family, school, and the shop, so I'm less likely to put up a larger entry fee when I know my game just isn't where it needs to be. I love tournament bowling and will shoe up in a second when I can afford it....and have time....which just isn't very often.</p>
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<p>As far as the cap....I totally agree with Greg on this one. I took almost a full year off of bowling and when I came back was bowling HORRIBLE. I booked last year at 211 so I thought bowling Chase's tournament would have been great since I'm back around 235 again......the problem is that I still couldn't find anyone that I wanted to bowl with that was really under 219 and was available. I can only imagine Greg's frustration trying to bowl with trying to find partners averaging like 170 (Greg's league average has to be like 260...lol).</p>
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<p>It's really complicated though...and until we get more bowlers in the game altogether the participation will continue to decline.</p> Speaking for myself, (an out…tag:realbowlers.ning.com,2012-06-10:2153999:Comment:923732012-06-10T02:50:58.835ZDaphne Smithhttp://realbowlers.ning.com/profile/DaphneSmith
<p>Speaking for myself, (an out of towner), I don't bowl the doubles tourneys because of the cap. Being that I don't bowl in the Atlanta area, I don't know the local bowlers. I only know the scratch bowlers from the tourneys I have bowled. And I can't bowl with any of the scratch bowlers because of the cap. Alibis are another deterrent for me, as I don't have the advantage of knowing the locals. I know that is how a lot of the money is made, but it doesn't benefit me. There are several bowlers…</p>
<p>Speaking for myself, (an out of towner), I don't bowl the doubles tourneys because of the cap. Being that I don't bowl in the Atlanta area, I don't know the local bowlers. I only know the scratch bowlers from the tourneys I have bowled. And I can't bowl with any of the scratch bowlers because of the cap. Alibis are another deterrent for me, as I don't have the advantage of knowing the locals. I know that is how a lot of the money is made, but it doesn't benefit me. There are several bowlers in my area that have shown interest but as soon as they see the cap it is a big NO!!!</p>
<p>As far as the RBT's...I don't like having to place in the top 5 to make it worth the money to drive to Atlanta. Being a female that is quite difficult to do. The RBT's are wonderful tournaments and I always enjoy the ones I do bowl. Tim and Theo run a great tournament. I just wish the payout ratio wasn't so top heavy.</p>