What do you think we need to change or do, so that we can get more participation in the tournaments in Atlanta?

[Greg Black Jr]

I think its very simple. STOP PUTTING  A CAP ON EVERY THING WE BOWL IN. I am not just saying that because I average 240+, but if you were to take the cap off, then  maybe bowlers from out of town would come support and take a chance to win them some money.

Example: If I had 8 bowlers, but 6 of them averaged 215 to 230 and the stayed in Alabama and it was a tournament in Atlanta with a cap of 430 or 435. We would have to find some lower average bowlers who would be willing to drive all the way to altanta because we wouldn't know who or how many people will be at your tournament with low enough averages and without a partner, that will take a chance to bowl with someone they dont know.......

But if you take the cap off, then it would not matter because we can bowl with each other as well as handicap bowlers which will increase entry's, alibi's, and people from other areas like North Carolina,South Carolina,Chattanooga,Alabama and other parts of Georgia would seriously think about coming to bowl.

Everytime I go out of town people ask about tournaments in Atlanta and tell me they want to come bowl in something here,but when I show them the flyers,first thing they say is NEVERMIND BECAUSE THEY ARE LIMITING ME TO ONLY BOWL WITH PEOPLE I DONT KNOW, and these are only 200 to 225 bowlers.

To make a long stoy short,make it worth it for people from other areas to come bowl. IM NOT TALKING ABOUT THE PRIZE FUND, BECAUSE YALL PAY GOOD. IM NOT TALKING ABOUT THE SHOT, BECAUSE THE SHOT IS NEVER EASY WHICH MAKES IT EVEN FOR BOTH HANDICAP AND SCRATCH BOWLERS.................JUST TAKE THE CAP OFF AND LET PEOPLE BOWL......

 

                                      THAT IS ALL

[Chase]

Taking the cap off is a great idea... and would definitely increase out-of-town participation.  But, one the other side – it will probably change the participation of the locals.  There are more 200-215 local bowlers that know that they most times don’t stand a chance against (2) 235+ bowlers (most times).  So, even with a difficult shot to "even out" the strikes & carry-contest stuff (a little)... you still have to deal with the MINDSET of the local bowler that FEELS like they don’t stand a chance against a “Greg & Isom”, or “Jake & Greg”, etc, etc.   Personally, I like the idea of "no cap".  But, from a tournament/business proposal -- it could be a little risky in Atlanta.  I witnessed George Gohagan III & Greg Black Jr. put up 1600+ at a tournament ...and then I watched bowlers coming in for the next squad turn around and head back to their cars.  So, like I said... it's a cool idea, and would bring in more out-of-town bowlers... but I think you might lose the local participation even more. 

…Just my 2 cents...

 

Ok, now to answer the original question.  I have had success by Marketing and Advertising more than most, guaranteed payouts of more than just 1st place, and trying our best to run a "good tournament" where the bowler has a good experience.  I also honor the payouts I advertise... regardless of the turnout -- good or bad.  There will be some tournaments that will profit well, and others that I might take a little losss.  But, overall, we usually do ok.

[Greg Black Jr]

If anyone regardless of there name bowl 1600 people will turn around,but im willing to guarantee you that a 200 or 215 bowler would love to have the chance to bowl with me,gg3,isom,jake,jeff and so on, for a chance to win 3000 instead of bowling with a 190 bowler because they feel if they was to do there part,we will do our part to help.....SO THEREFOR I THINK IT WOULD INCREASE.........

 

[Greg Black Jr]

CHASE YOU RUN A GREAT TOURNAMENT BUT PEOPLE BE SITTING DOWN WISHING THEY COULD BOWL OR ALIBI WITH SO OF THE BETTER BOWLER .IJS

 

[Chase]

I understand, and as I stated, "I think it's a great idea".  But, there is a mindset of the other bowlers that has to be considered.  I imagine, that's where the whole "cap" idea came from.  I remember getting the whole cap idea from The RBT Sweepers that started at Metro.  So, when I started getting info from Velma, Theo, and others on how to run a tournament... I just incorporated the best ideas I thought all the other tournaments did...and started hosting my own.  The QB tournaments don’t have a cap, and with the shot I normally use... there shouldn't be one in my tournaments (to me personally).  But, you would be surprised if I told you how many people are talking throughout Atlanta about certain bowlers being allowed to bowl together in leagues that always end up in 1st.... and people at some point are going to get wise and stop donating.  I hear that mess every week while we are bowling.  Greg, I think you're absolutely right.  But, I also think that changing the mindset of the local bowlers may be a little challenging. 

OK -- I say we convince Theo/RBT to partner with me/Bowling200…to do a doubles tournament and test it out.  Guaranteed money, and no cap.  ....Theo..Tim? (your move...lol)

[Horace L. Kelly]

I totally agree with both of you Greg, and Chase, but still what is the best solution? Even I would love to be able to bowl with some of the elite bowlers, or alibi, but in the same thought even if I had that chance, and for example participating in Chase's tournament, if I choose to bowl the last week of the tournament and knowing I will have the opportunity to bowl with an elite bowler and see 1550 at the top of the board that would be discouraging. But I would like to see caps removed personally, I think it would make it all better.

[Chase]

New Question -  Since we are talking about "caps"  -- then on the other side of things.... should we still limit the amount of handicap a bowler can have?  I mean, my Pops (bless his soul) is a true 150 avg. bowler.  The tournament only gives him 45 pins.    Is this fair?

[Greg Black Jr]

90% of 210 with no cap on pins is good

[Theo McNair]

Nice post Greg! I do agree to  a certain extent.

I have a lot of feedback on this topic...But its to much to type :)

Chase, I would love for us to team up and do something great!!  Lets talk.  

I told Greg in league tonight, I would be willing to try his concept for our Thanksgiving tournament in November.

My "theo"ry is having a cap and a tough shot for a Handicap tournament is counterproductive.  We have never put a tough shot out for a tournament with a cap. 

Chase as you know you have Professional Bowlers and Professional Sandbaggers, so you have to do something to maintain a balance.

Another issue with the tough shots for handicap tourneys...it makes it harder to track the sandbaggers down, because their scores are not really exposed.  I want to expose the sandbaggers so we can re rate them and have a good competitive and fair tournament.  Sandbaggers hurt tournaments more than the high avg bowlers to me.

I will post more later :)

[Didier Foucher]

I have only bowled one RBT and enjoyed the competion. Regarding the CAP and handicap bowlers, has anyone looked at the ABT business model, where in their tournaments the handicap bowlers qualify and bowl against only the handicap bowlers and the scratch bowlers against the scratch bowlers until the final match, then the top handicap and scratch bowlers face each other in the final match for the tournament 1st and 2nd place finish. They have two division 189 & below, then 190 & above. Everyone's average is re-rated on how they bowl in the tournaments and respectively receive extra pins if they don't cash in the tournament. If they cash, then they lose pins. Anyone making the semi cut is payed accordingly to the position they finish. They do however have more than one shift per day and allow multiple re-entry. 

As far as participation goes, has anyone tought about running some of the tournaments on Saturday, instead of Sunday?

  

[Greg Black Jr]

We was talking about a doubles tournament but i still like the ABT format

 

[Akil Razzak]

I agree with you on that point there Black. Question for Chase is. What's the Highest Scratch Singles score to win your tournament in the last 2 yrs? There was one 700 shot in the last one and the winning score was over 1400. If it's a competitive shot then things even out.

Greg Black Jr said:

CHASE YOU RUN A GREAT TOURNAMENT BUT PEOPLE BE SITTING DOWN WISHING THEY COULD BOWL OR ALIBI WITH SO OF THE BETTER BOWLER .IJS

 

[Akil Razzak]

I believe if you make the shot competitive like you've been doing at Bowling 200 and RBT; you don't need a cap. The scores don't lie. You are limiting your options when you tell me I have to bowl with just anybody. I can't help it I've been averaging 230+. If  Leages had more competitive shots then our averages would be as high. Leages and Centers are now looking for scores and not trying to protect the game. Velma at Queen Bee Learned that secret about running a sucessful tournament a long time ago. I feel you have a chance to win as a scratch or handicap bowler. As a tournament director you should not be afraid to tell a known Sandbagger. " You're not shooting off that average in my tournament". I've been bowling a long time and a lot of places and I've gotten to know some of them and it hurts to see certain tournament allow them to just come in and steal the money. I understand a bowler having a good day but when you have someone who bowls all around and has been bowling for 15-20 yrs and their avarage has been sitting on 175-185 the last 10 yrs and they winning money. there's a problem. If you're worrying about turning away a few dollars you will learn that soon evryone with common since will turn away their monies.